Legit Parenting
Legit Parenting
Parenting Under Stress: Balancing Expectations and Independence. The College Admission Dilemma
When it comes to college admissions, we challenge the conventional wisdom that prestigious universities are the golden ticket to success and happiness. Reflecting on scandals like Rick Singer's deceitful manipulation of the system, we examine the intense pressure and ethical dilemmas that students and families face. The episode also touches upon the booming industry of college admissions consulting, raising questions about the commercialization of education and its impact on young minds. Our conversation emphasizes nurturing children's genuine interests over the pursuit of parental validation.
Welcome to Legit Parenting, where imperfect parents build resilient kids and families. A place to learn real solutions based in brain science to fit your unique parenting style. We show you how to tackle today's challenges for children and teens. Remember, when it comes to raising kids, you just have to be this side of good enough. Join us and we will show you how this side of good enough. Join us and we will show you how. I'm your host, craig Nippenberg. I've been a child and family therapist for nearly 40 years. I'm the business owner of one of Colorado's largest private practices, best-selling author and father of four. In my fathering world, I've been a birth dad, a single parent, a step parent, an adoptive parent, a parent of exceptional students and a grandparent of two. By my side is Sydney Moreau, our production manager and mother of three ages, preschool through 18. Together, we bring you a guilt-free parenting perspective with solutions that actually fit into your real life. Welcome to Legit Parenting. I'm your host, craig Nippenberg, along with my producer, sidney Moreau.
Speaker 1:Today we're going to continue on from our last episode, which was we talked about promoting independence and before college, so that your child is ready to launch. Today we're going to dive a little deeper and younger on that topic, on the topic of college hysteria and getting your kid into the perfect school for their future and trickling down to elementary school. But first I want to just talk about a few things I saw on the news recently related to other major stressors for parents, which is social media and your children. The first one was leaked news. Now, the way I understand this you can't quote me on this one, but apparently so there's a trial going on between Seville Estates and TikTok over what it's doing to children and the trial notes are in the preliminary trial. The notes are all supposed to be sealed. All the investigations, all the emails they have were supposed to be sealed, but apparently a court reporter somewhere I think it was Kentucky didn't press the little button that said to seal them and they went public and they keep pushing it. Also this is rather interesting they tend to pick people who post. They tend to pick out the attractive people and post there's more and push those more because they'll get more likes, because the person posting it is attractive. Just disgusting. They know what they've been doing all along and they continue to do it. It really is just beyond belief. It certainly pushes repetitive, compulsive behavior and verging on an addiction and it doesn't take very long. Be very careful about that one.
Speaker 1:The second one, roblox. Now I've always thought Roblox was just this cute little thing that a lot of younger children are really into and it seems pretty harmless. As far as I get it, they're creating universes or something they're building. It seems very analytical. I've never done it, but they just read a piece about child safety on Roblox blocks.
Speaker 1:This person they were interviewing said a child under the age of 13 found chat rooms with tens of thousands of users open, soliciting sexual favors and trading child pornography. It said it was able to access games such as Escape to Epstein Island that's that. Was it Joffrey Epstein sending I think that was his name where he had a bunch of young girls for wealthy men and Diddy Party, a reference to rapper Sean Diddy Combs, who was indicted last month on sex trafficking? The firm said Roblox social media features allow pedophiles to efficiently target hundreds of children With its child account, said Hindenburg said it conducted search and word word adult and the results led to an experience of Roblox called adult studios with 3,300 members openly training child pornography and soliciting sexual acts. The experience is now blocked by Roblox but Hindenburg said it tracked some of the members and found 38 more groups, one one with 100,000 members doing the same.
Speaker 1:It said chat rooms, trading and child pornography had no age restrictions. So that means your 8-, 9 or 10-year-old playing Roblox with their friends could end up being predators or being victims to child predators. That is just disgusting. So the word of the day is it's time for us to put Pandora back in her box. She got out of the box and we need to put her back. It's just out of control, sid. Any thoughts on your end on that one?
Speaker 2:I have a son that plays Roblox and I do know that they have a chat component to it where you can hear people talking, and we've really put a limit on allowing our son to do that. He's eight, he wants to do it, and the reason that we've put a limit on it is because you hear a lot of bad words and a lot of. I wouldn't say it's like bullying, but like bullying like language, calling each other names and stuff like that and it was more. It became more prevalent. I think my 17 year old daughter told me that cause she sometimes plays Roblox with her friends still is that they made this like chat feature more accessible on more of the games or something like that, so it's more prevalent. He's not at a stage where he's in chat rooms or anything like that yet, but he's also are.
Speaker 2:I think you have to always be aware that there's always going to be people that are targeting kids games, especially online, doesn't? I can remember? Actually, I had this conversation with a friend of mine. I grew, I was in, I was a late teen somewhere in there when AOL came to light Right.
Speaker 2:I think I can't. I don't know if I was in college or I had one of those high school. I can't remember, but they had chat.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I was in college or high school, I can't remember, but they had chat. There was chat on AOL and even then I remember there would be solicitation of sex in these chat box things at that time. So there's always going to be that group of people that's going to target after kids. What we do is we have our eight-year-old play roblox at the kitchen island, where we're always an earshot of it, because and I'm like you can play that game but turn the volume down so you can't hear it, you can it but don't have the sound on kind of thing. But it is tough.
Speaker 1:I'm so clueless about technology, I'm the guy that goes to Verizon and they try to teach me how to do stuff and I'm like, no, I don't want to know, just do it for me, sure. So it sounds like it's the chat feature, yeah, where this stuff crosses over the line. There might.
Speaker 2:I mean just playing it as a kid. Playing it, well, there's versus, there's thousands of games and the games are, I think, user created. So some of them gain popularity and are more fun and, um, like that game among us and stuff like that, those games which is like a fun little who's the I don't know, I think who's the killer or something like that. But they're not, it's not violent, but it's like which one of the characters committed the crime, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's like that old game in the circle You'd play detective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like somebody would wink.
Speaker 1:Sure, right, you were the one shooting everyone, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so there are games like that and some gain a lot of popularity, but you could search for hours in all of the games that are created by users. I don't know if there's a message chat like feature where you're just in a chat room with these guys, but the games themselves have auditory components where you can listen and talk to each other.
Speaker 2:Otherwise it's done by text. So otherwise it's been done by written and it's really small print and it comes up and down and goes really quick. A little bit clueless too, other than I'm just like play it in the kitchen.
Speaker 1:So you're monitoring it. Of course, one piece for parents is to make sure you're monitoring it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Now it won't be too long before your son wants to have earbuds in Right and playing his room Sure, and then everything's off the hinges. Well, that's no control.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And even my daughter, who is 17, she's had her incidences where she's had social media creepers text her message, her things like that. And I've just taught her to tell me and we have a very open relationship, so there's no embarrassment in talking about it and there's been a couple things that have popped up over the years and she's like look at this when it's some man's penis and I'm like, oh, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can only imagine, because I get so frustrated, I started doing some social media marketing on LinkedIn. Now, linkedin is supposed to be for professionals. Right, raise your platform among other professionals. But the longer I've done it, the more I get requests and I can always I know immediately because the picture is a young woman.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it says messages me saying how are you Like okay, yeah, I'm not accepting it. It's just like absurd. It is Like come on, leave me alone. Just because I'm a little guy doesn't mean that.
Speaker 2:Called catfishing.
Speaker 1:I'm not happily married and Right have any interest in some 20 year old.
Speaker 2:It's probably some Russian guy trying to sell you crypto. Yeah, it's cool. It's just it's the, it is the it's the bane of public media, public access to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it is, it's terrible. Oh, things used to be so much more simple. I know I sound old, but it was.
Speaker 2:There's truth in that, okay.
Speaker 1:Let's go on to my topic. Before I really just check out college hysteria Now, I want to give a little background to our audience. So back in the day, majority of students went to their state universities, state colleges, someone. I was privileged enough, thanks to my father, to go to a private university, which many of my friends were like why are you going there? Why don't you just come with us to Southeast Missouri State? I want to have more of a future, and they were just partying. But it was my dad said to me do you have two choices? I can send you to University of Missouri, I'll pay for it, or I'll send you to Valparaiso University I'll pay for it, or I'll send you to Valparaiso University and I'll pay for that. You can go anywhere else you want, but you'll pay for it. I'm like okay, and I looked on a map and Valpo was six hours away and Columbia was two hours away. And then I'll go to Valpo because I really wanted to be away from home. I wanted to have the whole college experience.
Speaker 1:Now it was not. Basically, it was your high school counselor at your school who would direct you on. Ok, where do you think you might want to go? What's your test scores, what's your GPA, and they had a little graph that told you whether you'd make it in to these various schools. It was a pretty simple process. And then, two or three decades ago and parents, there was this big push and the development of the College Placement Planners Association and I will mention one of the founders, who's a dear friend of mine, who is as ethical as can be about the whole process. I'll explain his process later.
Speaker 1:But parents became more and more concerned about our child has to go to the right school, they have to get into these elite schools so they can be successful. And it was this push to get your kids the pre-test on the ACT and SATs, doing the classes, bumping up your resume, et cetera. In fact, I had a and had her GPA and she was in two clubs, and one of which was women for the Broncos football team, which was quite cute, who was valedictorian, that had the perfect 5.0, plus a list of about 10 different activities, clubs, memberships, all these things they've done, and everybody had to bump up their resumes to get into these elite colleges. Now, in saying so, there was another article about 20 years ago that interviewed or looked at famous people who did not make it into their college of choice, one of whom was Warren Buffett, condoleezza Rice, who was undersecretary of state, secretary of state. She didn't get into her choice and how? It really didn't change their trajectory at all. They were just fine and they were very successful people.
Speaker 1:Now you can look up research on the universities. They track this like how much does their average graduate make in salary and they break it down into like a bachelor's in business or getting your law degree or going to medical school and how that changes your income. So we know that if you go to MIT, you're obviously going to be making some pretty good money. So we know that if you go to MIT, you're obviously going to be making some pretty good money. But, other than income, there is no research that says going to the right school is going to guarantee your success in life and your happiness in life and your mental health in life. So a prestigious degree might get you a start in your career early on, but that doesn't guarantee future success.
Speaker 1:And I will quote a Harvard study in a little bit. Things took a bit of a turn several years ago and I just read it. This college admissions company to get kids into elite schools and basically he was paying coaches money off the table to admit students from celebrities and Hollywood stars and big money people. They give them money Hollywood stars and big money people. They give them money. He would pay off coaches to put their kid on the water polo team and they'd get a scholarship for the water polo team, even though the picture of the kid in the pool was taken in their backyard. The kid had never played water polo in his life, but they got him in, got a scholarship, got to the school he wanted to go to and the coaches Saff staff in the article said we don't care if he plays or not, just give us the money, we'll take him in. And he figured out how to scam the schools to get these elite people's kids in the school, including Felicity Hoffman, who I believe was found guilty a couple years ago of embezzlement or fraud or something like that. But the guy called it. He figured out side doors to get your kid into elite schools.
Speaker 1:Now one of the questions that I wondered about is every teenager, when you go off to college or when you start a new job, everybody experiences what's called imposter syndrome. Do I really belong there? Am I good enough. Am I just an imposter? And that's a normal human experience, when you're reaching for a new level in your career or your academics, that you're wondering can I keep up? And maybe this is a mistake and I shouldn't be here, right? How would you feel if your teenager had found out that you paid money and manipulated the system to get him into a school which they wouldn't have qualified for? I can't even imagine how you would devastate you'd be and then really feel like I am an imposter. I don't belong here, I shouldn't have been here, but someone manipulated it for me, including my parents.
Speaker 1:Now, the singer guy had a great quote. He said he realized that we want to live our lives the parents through our kid and be able to go to the Saturday night party and say, oh Jennifer, she's going to go to Harvard. Think about that. So who's driving it? Is Jennifer driving to get into Harvard or her parents driving to get her there? Who's the one that's getting the gratification for it? If you're parenting for your child's needs, you'll never go wrong. If you're parenting your child so that your needs are met, you're in deep trouble.
Speaker 1:I see several student athletes and academic kids who have been pushed since they were little in particular sports or in academics, and by the time they hit 16, 17, one, they get burnt out. They often have frequent injuries related to that specific sport they're doing and they realize they don't really like it anymore. It's not their passion. The whole idea of kids is to figure out what your passion is going to be and parents to support a variety of passions as they're growing up and then help and guide them as they zone in on what they really want. And then help and guide them as they zone in on what they really want, not to push them into something so you can feel like they're successful, they're going to be successful, they're going to be stars, or that you want to tell people at the cocktail party where your child goes. That is really off the mark and it will come back to haunt you. Anyway, this guy, rick Singer he's out of jail today. Talk about timely for our podcast and guess what? He's going back to it with a company called ID Future Stars. But he claims that this time it's on the up and up. He won't do anything scandalous or take money on the sides or bribes. He's going to do it on the up and up. We'll see if he's been reformed after his I think it was 16 months in prison. We'll see how he does. But people are just coming after your kids over and over.
Speaker 1:So in the old days you'd think about, okay, junior year you start thinking about college, where you want to go. You start visiting schools. I took my son's senior year of fall. I took him out to Yale and he walked around. He said this place sucks, I don't want to go here, and it was cold and wet and he didn't relate to any of it. So you start doing those visits and checking things out, maybe doing the test prep, which my kid never did the test prep and you start exploring.
Speaker 1:Now I just read a piece a couple days ago about the guru of college admissions and this gentleman. He runs it's called Crimson Education and people say he's like the Steve Jobs of college counseling and he's getting backed by Wall Street. He's raised millions and millions of dollars through Wall Street on his program that helps children as young at age 11 start grooming them for Harvard, stanford, mit, grooming 11-year-olds so they can be successful. Clients pay this guy Beaton is the last name from $30,000 to $200,000 for a four to six-year program that includes tutoring and academics, test-taking, advice on how to gather stellar teacher recommendations and how to execute your projects. These can range from writing a book to publishing an academic paper or starting a podcast. Eager families pay more and more for a leg up on a lease school, aiming to acquire what has been a vital chip in a winner-take-all economy. So this is, in some regards, capitalism unleashed. Around 10,000 people work as full-time college consultants in the US, another 3,000 abroad. That's up from less than 100 in 1990. So that's for all the college placement planners. There was 100 in 1990. My friend was one of the first ones and now you've got 10,000 people doing that, including this guy who is making big money for doing it with 11-year-olds.
Speaker 1:Beaton's strategy was to invest the least effort into the greatest number of arenas and to rise to the top of the hierarchy of the shortest time. He aimed to validate his success in tournaments and competition, and basically what that means is his method is to get your kid instead of usually with children. You want them to experience all sorts of different things arts, athletics, leadership, whatever it is to follow their passions and over time you sort out okay, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to do. This is what I want to be. The same thing with liberal arts colleges. Liberal arts colleges, the first two years is teaching you really how to learn, exploring all these different options and then honing in to what you want to be Now. For your kids, they probably play a variety of sports and maybe music and art, and for the athletes, they might be doing the soccer they do lacrosse, they do swing team in the summer, of course. All these various things, and then over time they figure out okay which one really fits for me, which is the one I want to dedicate to.
Speaker 1:So when I was 12, 13, I did not do well at baseball, football, I pretty much sucked until I discovered hockey. And when I discovered hockey on my own, my parents had nothing to do with it. When I discovered hockey the afterschool hockey program at our school it changed my life and it really helped me survive through a rough middle school period. And I still love to play stick floor hockey with the kids here at our groups over in the office. Every now and then I'll go, and when one of the groups is going, the kids are playing stick ball hockey in the gym and I love picking up a stick and shooting around. And a couple of weeks ago I had fun with my grandson and we got him a couple of sticks and a ball and we've been shooting the ball back and forth and just loved it.
Speaker 1:But it takes time for kids to explore and figure out. And then the old idea was in high school you'd have athletes, artists, whatever, doing two or three different things, two or three sports, different activities, arts, music, choir, instruments doing lots of different things. And then as they moved along they figured out okay, this is as far as I'm going to go with this high school. Others were like okay, I want to go into college and this is the one or two I can focus on for college and maybe get a scholarship or get on the college team. And then there are a few of the very small percentage that actually go pro in their thing. So the idea is to expose your kid to all these different opportunities, different pastures. So your kids are your sheep. You're taking them to different pastures and see which ones they like the best. But this guy's recommendation is oh no, at 11, they need to decide one or two that they can excel at, where they can be the captain of the team, and if you're not going to be the captain of the team, it's not going to help your resume Really. We want 11-year-olds already to decide where they're going to focus. One young woman they talked about has 23 tutors helping her on academic subjects and test preparation. The student is also writing a novel, editing an essay for a competitive journal and working on a research paper that looks at the linguistic patterns in Taylor Swift's song. Okay, now, if that's what this child really likes, great, that's awesome if that's her passion. But if you're working with 23 tutors, do you really have time to develop who you are and who you want to be if you're just being pushed and driven to become something that we don't know if that's going to work for you or not?
Speaker 1:At that age, critics say the Wall Street-backed college counselors are preying on the anxieties of well-to-do families desperate to get their children into elite schools. Admissions deans say they can actually do more harm than good. I would probably agree with that. Oh, and good teacher recommendations aren't enough. You have to get your teacher to say that you're the most remarkable student that you've ever had. So it's hard for me to swallow, especially given all the kids I've seen who are burnt out. And if your student is doing this for you, to please you, and not for their own passion, they're not going to make it. They're going to struggle and they may make it to elite and then they might fall apart. It has to be from your child's passion. It has to come from them, not from you.
Speaker 1:Now the interesting part of this Harvard's very own decades-long research project. This went on, I think 30 or 40 years and they researched all their graduates to see how they were doing, and they wanted to know was there a common variable about the ones who were more successful than other Harvard graduates? So they all went to Harvard, they all graduated, but the ones that really turned out to have stellar careers. What do they have in common? And they found one thing they had in common they did chores. When they were children. They worked when they were children. Their parents had them do chores and what they found was that doing chores built up independence, teamwork, problem solving, a sense of belonging to a group, that you're contributing to, a sense of value and self-worth doing your chores. Now nowadays and this has been going on for a while the high school kids get so much homework and there's no research on that either. That's helpful. So when you try to get your high school student to do a chore or two, what do they say? Sydney, what do you think?
Speaker 2:I don't know, my kids don't have the option.
Speaker 1:They have chores. Yeah, that's good. I love that they don't have an option, right I?
Speaker 2:mean they do resist it sometimes, but it's just going to happen.
Speaker 1:But the most common one is oh, I don't have time, I have homework, yeah, and there goes the chores, there goes anything else. We got to focus on the homework. When having the chores and having your child do that first, your team is going to help them more than anything else. So I guess my advice don't join in the hysteria. If kid is going to become who they're going to become, no matter what, and joining into the hysteria is just putting undue stress on them. Now on the flip side is my friend Steve Antonoff, a-n-t-o-n-o-f-f. Dr Steve Antonoff, who was one of the founders of the College Placement Planners Association. He was the head of it and has written I think his book's been redone at least 10 or 12 times. It's called College Match A Blueprint for Choosing the Best School for you and what his whole thing about it. It was originally published. The last edition was 2022.
Speaker 1:But his approach has always been helping an individual student find the school out of thousands of schools that's a good fit for them in every area Academics, social life, arts, athletics, everything, leadership. It's finding the right fit and I actually had the blessing. I worked for him back late 80s, early 90s and I did a trip for him out to Chicago and I saw University of Chicago. I went to Loyola Northwestern Forum, some Southern Wisconsin schools in Purdue and I went around interviewing the admissions director and then going to the student union and meeting students to talk about what they liked about their school and he compiled massive amounts of information on different schools and then is able to help students find the best fit, not the most prestigious school, but what is really going to fit your student and help them flourish and become who they can potentially become. So that approach I think is great. Other than that, not so much Sydney, any of your thoughts.
Speaker 2:I think you touch on a couple things that are beyond even just the college aspect of it. I think there's a balance giving your kids expectations of how to live and operate in the world, like as doing chores or what it means to be part of a family, or following through on your obligations, and you know like in sports like yeah, you might not be the greatest soccer player, but you're going to finish the season or you're going to whatever it is, those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Because I think that there are two. There's like this, two extremes that we operate in right now in our world, where you have parents that are like whatever Johnny wants, johnny will find his way, it's going to work out. Okay, I don't want to, I don't want to upset him too much, I don't want to do that stuff. So there's like that real gentle, no expectations, no responsibilities kind of place. And then I think you have the other end of it, where I think what it is at the core is that parents do live vicariously through their children, and so if your child is not successful, it's actually more of a shame mark on you as a parent and you can influence your kid and they'll learn more by seeing what you do.
Speaker 2:But you can influence them, but you can't change really too much about it. Other than that there are expectations, Like there's expectations to live in the world successfully.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to be a social person and be part of a group that survives. But you're right about the pride and I talk about this in my lectures in the book. I just heard it pronounced by the audiobook person who's doing my book right now. I always thought it was nackas, but I can't even say it. It's a Hebrew term which is pride in your offspring, which is a great feeling. There also is and I don't recall the word there's one for shame in your offspring, and those are natural human emotions parents would feel. When your kids succeed, you feel a sense of pride and joy for them, but that pride should be focused on that. Your child worked hard. They feel pride in themselves. The end is not for the parent to feel pride in their offspring. The end is for your offspring to have a sense of achievement, accomplishment, pride, joy, passion, being of service to others, from which then you are reflected, a pride yourself and feel good for them, not just for you, Because I was such a fabulous parent.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it should always be on the kids, not on you. And you do feel shame too sometimes, and my mother was not afraid to tell us you should be ashamed of yourself when we didn't live up to moral expectations. She was happy to tell us that Nowadays oh my gosh, children you never feel shame. Shame serves a purpose for humans. It tells us that we did wrong and we need to change our behavior. So I love that for my mother, who has a transition, for things of beauty make me cry. I'm going to talk about her First. I thought I would mention I just had a joyful moment the other day, coming to the office and our group kids were letting out after their group sessions and learning social skills and making friends, and it's always a joy for me to see him leaving the office smiling and dancing out. It fills me with such joy. But there was these two young girls about 11, and one had her dad there, one was the mom picking her up and the girls were like we want to play for a little bit. Can we play? Can we have some fun together? And the mom's like, okay, you have 15 minutes. And the daughter said I'll take 15 minutes, I'll take whatever we can, and off they ran to the playground. I was just like so touched, it was just darling. And then, secondly, I'm going to see my mom in the next couple of days. I'm going to do a little road trip and do some riding on my next book and riding my bicycle on the KD Trail in Missouri. And then I'm going to go visit my mom and I started composing.
Speaker 1:Her eyes are growing dim. I talked to her yesterday. She had a hard time understanding. Yesterday it goes week to week. A week ago she was really clear and could understand. This time not so much. A week ago she was really clear. We could understand. This time not so much.
Speaker 1:But for my father, shortly before his death he had a stroke and I took him out to a little lake they have by the rehab center and he was in his wheelchair. He couldn't talk, but I wrote a list of things he taught me that I learned from him and I read him the list and it's in my first book, wired and Connected. And he squeezed my hand the most amazing thing I've ever done and I thought I want to do that for my mother. So right now I'm collecting all my memories and as I drive to Missouri. I'm sure I'll add to it.
Speaker 1:But a couple that I thought I would just mention was she would always say etch it in your memory. So we'd have these amazing family experiences, times together, and she would just say etch this one in your memory. And I have many memories of just joyful moments with her on my family, Forgive and forget. She was big on forgiveness and moving on and when us children argued with each other had I gotten the TIF, which was frequent with five kids she'd sit the two offenders down on the bench and she'd say not talk it out, and forgive each other, and you're not leaving till you do. So we would have to suck it up and apologize and agree to forgive each other. But I think most important and this is the one in the research I mentioned over and over again my mother is the most kind person you could ever meet and that kindness passed on and has brought much joy in my life and knowing that I got it from her.
Speaker 1:She was always kind to others and I so appreciate that, and I've had so many moments of blessing in my own life because of kindness. So you Mom, I look forward to seeing you soon. It might be the last time, but I can't wait to read my list. I hope you enjoyed the program today on tearing up. If you did, please share it with a friend. And until next time as a parent, just relax. You only have to be this side of good enough. Thank you.