Legit Parenting
Legit Parenting
Charting the Course Through Parental Burnout
Navigating modern parenting, Dr. Andrea Mata, Ph.D joins our crew, sharing her knowledge from the front lines of clinical child psychology and tips from her new book The No. 2 Parenting Book: Practical Tips for the Pooped Out Parent. Dr. Mata guides us through strategies to ward off the exhaustion that tip the balance of parental sanity. We reflect on the idea that reaching for "just good enough" is worth more than gold in parenting, and how instilling independence and setting consequences are essential navigational tools for guiding our children's growth and maintaining our own mental health.
About our guest. Dr. Andrea Mata, the daughter of a Mexican immigrant, grew up in a gang infested neighborhood on the south side of Chicago. At 11 years old, her life dramatically changed, and it fueled a desire to become a clinical child psychologist who specializes in treating antisocial and aggressive behaviors in children and teens in the hopes that other families would never experience what she went through. In 2021, she left a tenured position to live out her life’s mission of fortifying families by starting BrightSpot Families where she creates and delivers customized workshops on individual coping, relationships, and parenting skills. In 2023, she delivered a powerful TEDx talk, titled From Murder to Mission: How I Found My Life’s Calling, that’s available on YouTube.
Welcome to Legit Parenting, where imperfect parents build resume kids and families. A place to learn real solutions based in brain science to fit your unique parenting style. We show you how to tackle today's challenges for children and teens. Remember, when it comes to raising kids, you just have to be this side of good enough. Join us and we will show you how. I'm your host, craig Nippenberg. I've been a child and family therapist for nearly 40 years. I'm the business owner of one of Colorado's largest private practices, best-selling author and father of four. In my fathering world, I've been a birth death, a single parent, a step parent, adoptive parent, a parent of exceptional students and a grandparent of two. By my side is Sydney Moreau, our production manager and mother of three ages preschool through 18. Together we bring you a guilt-free parenting perspective with solutions that actually fit into your real life. Welcome to Legit Parenting. I'm your host, craig Nippenberg, along with my producer and mother of three, sydney Moreau.
Speaker 1:We just finished the holiday weekend President's Day weekend. The weather here in Colorado was absolutely gorgeous 65 degrees but I got to tell you I am tired out, I'm exhausted and beat up. We had the grandkids age four and eight over to our house for four days and that little one has got more energy than you could ever imagine. And we went on this really special trip to the Great Wolf Lodge and they're in a variety of states, but it's just this giant hotel with this giant water park and they have a wave pool and Milo grandson he must a hundred times plowed face first into the wave, would get knocked back into me and then would start trying to wrestle with me. I wrestled for hours and I hurt everywhere.
Speaker 1:So it's fair to say I'm pooped out, which is our topic today, and I'm so excited about a guest who's just going to be wonderful for us because we're talking about parental burnout, and I met her via LinkedIn. I saw one of her posts and it was about parental burnout and I was like this is awesome, and I followed a bunch of other posts that we'll talk about here shortly. Andrea, mada, welcome, and I will read your description shortly, but so happy to have you on and pooped out. Parenting also applies to grandparents.
Speaker 1:Yes, very much, so Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me, hello.
Speaker 1:Okay, before we jump into the show, I want to do two things out of the news, because these exemplify moms who are burnt out when it comes to trying to control social media. Okay, and, just like you, are burnout from it too. One was a letter the editor this mom wrote in after those congressional hearings that we're all excited about and how they were talking about about they should require parental approval for app downloads and she said that's not a bad idea, but any parent with a teenager will tell you this won't work as parents or editor or writers intend. I pay for a parent control app already and my children consistently find ways around the time limits I said they also continue to access TikTok even though it's blocked. The kids are way smarter than we are. Moms know that I'm not alone. Our kids are smarter than the parental controls and the parents who operate the controls. It helps that the app provides a list of websites your kids are visiting each day, but I still have limited control over what they see and no control over whom they interact with online. The only way I can successfully limit my children's time on their devices and social media is to take away their iPhones. As a society, maybe that's what we should consider. We have age restrictions on driving a car by alcohol or having a job. We don't leave it up to individual parents. Why not have age restrictions with smart devices as well and shins with? But if no one or and this is if you take it, your kid doesn't have it. All the other kids do. And she said, yeah, but if no one under 18 could own a smartphone in the world, would adjust to accommodate phone for 18s. It would become the norm. And I love that idea. That. It's just brutal. And I can't tell you how many lectures I've done on social media and there's always a parent that wants to ask me what device, what control system should I use. I'm like I have no idea. My team daughter sets mine out and it's impossible. I've never found a parent that said, oh, this thing worked perfect and I did a show. Oh gosh, about two years ago, a thing now a year and a half ago, about all the different ways kids sneak around those blockers and they know what to do and how to get your password, everything.
Speaker 1:And then second article was written by Julie Jargon, who is the family and tech person for the Wall Street Journal. She's an absolute brilliant journalist and she says even her it's time to reframe the discussion and why it won't recommend parental controls going forward. Even she's abandoned the idea. The one thing she talks about is sitting with your teens and go over safety settings on their apps. Help them anticipate the dangers they might face. And that brings in my three points that I love to lecture the when I'm talking not lecturing, but I'm talking and role playing with teenagers, middle schoolers, high school is number one.
Speaker 1:You are the product. They want your time, they want your eyeballs on that screen. They want to know what you're buying, what you're looking at. You are the product. Secondly is how it hijacks the brain. It takes our natural brain system for novelty and desire and just warps it out. And finally, you are a target. You could be a target for catfishing, sex distortion you name it bullying. You can be a target when you're online. That takes us to our guest and I'll read her very nice, short, brief bio. I love that.
Speaker 1:Dr Andrea Mata is a clinical child psychologist who specializes in treating antisocial and aggressive behaviors of children's and teens. Dr Mata had two big wins in 2023. She delivered a powerful TED talk titled from Murder to Mission how I Fall in my Life's Calling. That would be another good one for our parents out there to check out. That's available on YouTube and she published her first book Congratulations. It's the number two parenting book Practical Tips for the Pooped Out Parent and it's available on Amazon. I got to ask you first what's with the number two parenting book if it's your first book.
Speaker 2:Because so it's going off of, it's a pun off of going poop. The number two because the whole premise of the book is practical parent tips and the time it takes to poop.
Speaker 1:I just I love that. My middle school boy just came out that humor. That is awesome, just great. So, andrea, tell us what is parental burnout and why is it mad. What's so important about that?
Speaker 2:So parental burnout, like everyone. You hear lots and lots of people talking about burnout in general. You hear physician burnout, you hear just burnout in everyday life and work burnout, but no one's really talking about parental burnout. And so what? Parental burnout is the emotional reaction, the exhaustion, the disengagement that comes when our expectations of being a parent outweigh the resources we have to being an effective parent, and when it goes on for too long, then you find yourself just being exhausted and being like I just can't do it anymore and wanting to lay on the couch and wanting to do what you want to do instead of what you would normally be at, where you want to be like an engaging and loving parent. You just feel like you can't because there's just too much going on. There's just too many expectations going on.
Speaker 1:I just had a flashback to the thought of there's just not enough gas in the tank. And my son and I, years ago, were climbing Mount Rainier, which is just a brutal mountain that's picks and axes and ropes and crampons, crevasses, and we got to the top of Desolation, cleaver, and we were about a thousand feet from the summit and the guy came over to me my nickname's Bob and he's how much gas got left in the tank and I said, oh, about a quarter, I'm really feeling it. And he said you have to have enough energy to get down. And at that point myself and six other men decided to head back and I got to see my son trudge across the glacier on his way to the summit and he made it. But I had to live the summit through his photos. But there are times, as a parent, where you just have nothing in the tank and the day just started.
Speaker 2:And then you're like, oh my goodness, I have all this stuff to do, but then I just can't, can't do it, so you just give up, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then the kids, the kids take control.
Speaker 2:The kids take control and then you are no longer in control of your house and now your kids are ruling your house and it and then it's not a good outcome for anybody.
Speaker 1:No, that's a tough one, and I think about the the burning especially. It's hard enough with a partner, two parents, and once you're outnumbered by the kids, that's when you're in trouble. I to this day I don't know how my mom and dad raised five kids. We're in a mod gun. That's tough. But I also think about the single parents out there. What a brutal job that is. You work up, probably working all day, picking them up at the after school program, getting them home, try to feed them the nightmare of homework and off to bed and just fall asleep on the couch. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I've been doing with the number two parenting book. I've been doing working with a local not for profit, the program Inc. Which their mission is to help young men be, or young boys become men, and so it's all about absent or boys who have absent fathers. And so I'm working with the moms and we're doing they're reading through it's almost like a book study and they're going through the book and then I'm answering questions with them the first Thursday of every month, and one of the things that has already come up these first two months is how burned out these single moms are because they think they have to do everything for their children themselves, and so one of the things that I've been trying to really get them to lean into is look around the table.
Speaker 2:All these other women are single moms too. You don't have to do this alone. You just have to build relationships with these other single moms who are in the same spot. You are and are willing to help you. If you then return the help and they're like we don't trust them, we don't know them, and I'm like it's time to get to know them in these next, in these four weeks, and one of the things that like warmed my heart in the February one was I saw two moms start to exchange numbers and I was like, yes, so I'm so hopeful that when we go back in a few weeks that they have started to realize they have community. They just have to let people know that they need the help. But that is so. You have to be so vulnerable for that and for some reason, moms especially, I think they don't want to be vulnerable and ask for help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a couple of thoughts on that. It's always warms my heart. Here in our office in Denver we specialize in social, emotional and behavioral development groups. We have groups of 10 or 12 kids, a couple of therapists Every afternoon. I think we have 15 groups going a week right now and you see the parents when they're often sitting in the waiting room or waiting for pickup and they start to connect with each other and they bond around the fact that they all have exceptional kids and there's other parents just like them. I had one group this was probably 20 years ago the moms would sit in the waiting room, all of them every day, and at the final field trip with the children we would take them to a go-kart place and the moms all went out for margaritas. That is awesome. It was their farewell margarita with each other. But it is really essential to reach out and connect.
Speaker 1:I went through a period of being a single parent and I had to reach out to some other moms about hey, I work on these days. Is there any way you could pick up my son and take him to your house and then I'll reciprocate on the day's icon? So twice a week he'd go to one parent's house and later in the week I would take her son to our house and the boys had a great time. They got their homework done, played in the backyard. It was awesome. But I really needed it.
Speaker 1:But at first I was a little embarrassed about reaching out but I had to and once I did, it just opened a world of support and I don't think I met any parents and I had that relationship with numerous moms Never turned me down or anything. They were there when I needed them. If I had to work a little late they'd go pick up my kid for me. So that's essential is having that support. Love it. Now tell us what do you think about preventing burnout? So one strategy is make sure you have a community of like-minded people that can support you. What other kind of tips do you offer? Things from your book.
Speaker 2:So the first one, that so the best way to navigate burnout is, in fact, to prevent it from happening.
Speaker 2:And so one thing that I, one tip that I suggest parents do and a lot of the time parents will look at me and they're like we can't do that is take 30 minutes a day, every single day, and do something that you want to do, not because you have to, not because the kids want you to, but something that rejuvenates you, and it can be whatever your thing is.
Speaker 2:My thing is like walking and watching trash TV or reading. Those are my two things that rejuvenate me, and as long as I can get 30 minutes a day to do one of those two things, I'm good. And a lot of the time that the pushback I get, like I said before, is that they're like I don't have time for that and I tell them like your family can't afford for you not to do that. And it's not selfish to take 30 minutes a day to do those things, because then you can be a better mom and you can be a better whatever your name is, and you can be a better spouse and you're doing better at work and you're overall just happier because you're having your investing in your mental health, which the ripple effects of that are astronomical.
Speaker 1:Then you have something to look forward to. So when you're struggling, the kids are acting up. You got the preschoolers.
Speaker 1:I can remember when I was married with my son, when he was younger, there were two days a week. I would take care of him and I had the lecture in the mornings off and afternoons off. A couple days a week. I would just wait for my wife to show up home from work. I was like how much longer is it before she gets home? And then, of course, everybody I'm preparing the work for me to come home and the kids just come right to you and they absorb and you're wanting to relax from work. But I'm like I'm going on a bike ride. I got to get out of here, but having something to look forward to is great Ours, for both my wife and I it's working out. Now that takes longer, so we're talking an hour and a half, but we were able to work that out over these last four days. She went to Sunday morning at 7.15 and then I went to the 8.30 class, so we traded off and now it worked out great. Sydney, what does it for you to get that break?
Speaker 3:I'm in such a different situation as far as raising kids because I have such a huge spread with my kids. I have a 21-year-old that's in college, a 16-year-old and then I have a 7-year-old. So I find that my time is really stretched in between. So for me it's not so much finding a block of time but it's finding the moments where I can take a break, because I often tell my friends that have younger kids I said when your kids are younger, it's very physical. It's not so much like it is active, like a cognitive experience, but it's very physical. You're moving all the time you're doing teenagers. It's very cognitive, it's very like. The mental load of raising teenagers is intense. So I feel like my time is really spread thin.
Speaker 3:So it's for me it's you mentioned expectations. I find myself those breaks where I'm like here's a party pizza, I'm gonna take that time and I'm not gonna cook you dinner, but I'm gonna hang out maybe that hour back of doing that. So I don't, I can't say that I work out. That's not doesn't bring me that much joy. I do it because it's good, for I don't love it. It's finding those little pockets where I give my, where I cut myself. This seven year old, be on the iPad a little longer. It's here you go, here you go. That's you know my time. So it's for me it's just building in the time to do whatever I have like. As I said, it's cutting it throughout the day.
Speaker 1:This weekend. For us it was Paw Patrol, right? Hey kids, why don't you go watch Paw Patrol for a little bit? And they just had a great time and sincerely, they kind of want to wrestle or interact with us. But yeah, you do what you have to do I think that's key and decrease your expectations, because you really can never. As a parent, you're never going to reach your expectations. It doesn't happen. There's no Stanley Cup or Super Bowl for parenting. There's not the ultimate ninja right that was stood all the hugs and they get the big trophy because they endured. That doesn't exist for parents. There's no magical goal line that you have to try to reach. You're just trying to be good enough and survive.
Speaker 1:A lot of times, andra, I had a laugh when I saw your post about what do you do to take a break and I wrote back. My mother every morning for 30 minutes would retreat to the sanctity of her bathroom and she'd lock the door and she'd read Reader's Digest. Now there were plenty of times we wanted to knock on the door, but as a kid you're like mom's pooping Ugh, moms don't poop, do they? Ugh, I don't want to be in there. It's probably stinks. We wouldn't bite her, but that was her half hour. Every morning it's to read the Reader's Digest and that brings a lot of great memories to me. I unfortunately my mom has just ended hospice yesterday and she's been diagnosed with stage six dementia and that really is a tough one at 97. But I know she's ready to go.
Speaker 2:But that was her secret strategy with five kids who's gone to the bathroom and it fits perfect with their book title and so like when we were so like my creative team and I were trying to decide on the name because originally I wanted the pooping parent and my husband hated the name and my father-in-law hated the name Because my husband's thing was like, if you ever go and do press for it on the big shows, right, like Good Morning America or the Today Show or something like that like they're gonna introduce you as like the pooping parent, he's like I don't want that for you. And then a few days later he came back, so I figured about my mom.
Speaker 2:Right, he's actually. It's a brilliant idea. But then, like, we threw out some other names and one of the phrase when you were saying that Craig was the porcelain panic room was a phrase that, like, my illustrator had come up with and suggested Parenting tips from the porcelain panic room.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's. My mom had that. That is great. Any other tips you think for the burnout? So one prevention have a community so long expectations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, have a community.
Speaker 2:And I think going off those expectations like this was something I came up in one of my mastermind, in the mastermind that I'm a part of. The other day, one of the leaders, one of the coaches, was talking about cause her husband's also like a coach in there as well, and they were talking about like how she gets boggled down with laundry and that's like a draining thing on her. And so I was like, hey, why don't you, as her husband, just go out, find a laundry service for her and surprise her with it? And he was like they're like that would be so nice. I'm like sometimes you just want to ask what they want or what they need and so sometimes, like we just need people to be like here, we're gonna do this thing for you. So, like a laundry service or a cleaning service, if you have those means, there's no shame in hiring those out so that opens up space for you to interact with your children and have that relationship. So I think that goes off of that other expectations that Sidney was talking about.
Speaker 1:Now the other one and some Go ahead. I was just gonna say and finding some solutions. So if you don't have the means for cleaning service, how about dad does the laundry at our house? On the folder, I fold all the laundry and I love. This is a really quirky thing. I love doing dishes like scrubbing pots and pans or loading the dishwasher. I get it all lined up, trying to get as much in as I possibly can, and my wife and my daughter? They just throw things in the dishwasher willy nilly and I'll wipe. Oh my God, I'm gonna freak out. Let me pitch in and you take on some of those tasks.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So then the other thing.
Speaker 2:So if you find yourself in a burned out state, like you're, experiencing high levels of parental burnout, the one thing I suggest and this causes even more like upheaval than the 30 minutes a day is what I call a parent-cation. So either a mom-cation or a dad-cation, where and my recommendation is for 48 hours you are relieved of all parenting, all responsibilities in general, so you get to go where you want to go, you get to do what you want to do, you get to eat what you wanna eat, you can sleep when you wanna sleep without fear of being disturbed or woken up, or a kid needing something or puking or pooping, whatever it is. You take 48 hours at least every year and do something that's going to just relieve and rejuvenate you. Some people will take go to a hotel for 48 hours, some people will stay in their house and then either their parents or their spouse or someone friends go and take the kids for 48 hours. In the book I suggest that you can go down to 24 hours, but my recommendation is a 48 hour period.
Speaker 1:All right, I love that. And there's something you just said on it the end I was thinking to myself the best thing sometimes in your parent or grandparent is just being in the house alone with not anything else going on, and it's peaceful and it's quiet and you can read. And so sometimes it's getting your partner or the grandparents or the neighbor to take the kids, and the partner too, so that mom or dad can just be in the house alone. And that's still magical for us. With an 18 year old who doesn't start school till noon, kids pretty worried, tiresome for my wife and I to be up at five, 30 or six, busy as bees, and she's in there sleeping till the 11 and you're like I can't take it anymore. Wake up, do something. But when she boogies out for school, then it's quiet, it's peaceful, but yeah, have those times alone in the house is a real gift and an actual hotel sounds good too, but that's wonderful.
Speaker 1:I want to one other thing I thought of and I took a note on. I also think in terms of the burnout, and this is for anything in life. It could be your career, your volunteer work, whatever is when you have a longer term vision or longer term goal so that when you're burnt out that you focus on. This is why I'm doing what I'm doing is for this longer term goal of my family.
Speaker 1:Or in my case, I am so burnout with running a business and all the administration stuff taxes, new laws, employment issues. I hate doing it. But what I hold on to is when I see the families bringing in their kids every afternoon, seeing their therapist is, knowing we're helping hundreds of kids every week and tens of thousands over the last 40 years. That's what keeps me going through the administration stuff is that dream and that by doing it I'm helping them, helping families right, helping my employees, help families. And that's my bigger goal, or bigger vision, and I think it helps when you have that vision in mind for what you're shooting for. But it's not perfect parenting there is no such thing, that's perfect.
Speaker 1:No, and now I want to switch to a post you did the other day that I just loved it. I wonder if I should just maybe I'll just read it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could read it and it's about this whole movement towards gentle parenting. And you posted in a poll. 88% of parents stated their ideal child would have these characteristics, and they're punctuated little green circles, comfortable relationships, achievement oriented, self reliant, socially responsible, confident, knows right from wrong and cooperative. Those are all great ideas. Then only 4% stated their child, their ideal child, would have these characteristics, and they have little yellow circles impulsive, aggressive, self-centered, rebellion, aimless, dependent, lax a desire to achieve. Okay, so those are the ones most parents don't, although I would argue we need all accountants.
Speaker 1:A kid, from an evolutionary perspective, we need everybody. And it brings me to my favorite story about George Washington, who was a young man. At boarding school His father received a note from the head that said we don't believe young George is fit for our school because young George was thrown fists, he had a temper and he was aggressive, but they kept him in the school and he used that energy to free our country. So we need all types. But then you've gone to say gentle parenting is all the rave in America right now. But what if I told you the main philosophy of gentle parenting is more likely associated with the yellow characteristics compared to the green characteristics? And what I like to tell parents, and this is the essential part.
Speaker 1:And then I want you to jump in, andrea. Sorry, it's all about your unique child and some kids we know boys compared to girls statistically or more impulsive and the less. And some children are very impulsive with ADHD. If they're the impulsive type, it's tough. But the idea is the less internal control you have, the more external control you need. So you need firmer parenting for those children or they're going to kill themselves because they run out into the street, they look hard, they jump right out the door, they don't notice things because of that impulsive excitement and if you're being the gentle parent, if you're not giving that child what they need, they need much more firm limits around them. So, andrea, jump in, tell us about the poll and your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so one of the things this came out of that mastermind class, the mastermind group again, and so we were talking about, okay, hey, andrea, you should do a free virtual parenting talk, what's like a hot topic right now in the parenting world. And the first thing that popped into my mind was, oh, it's people like this, gentle parenting that we should validate our children's emotion, validate their emotions, validate their feels, like all of that. And the head guy was like and he paused and he looked at me weird and I'm like and that doesn't work, it doesn't lead to good outcomes. And he looks at me, he goes it sounds like you're raising like a terrible adult. And I was like yes, if you're constantly validating your child's feelings and you don't have any expectations of them, you're engaging in more of what's called like permissive parenting, where we see them be more impulsive, aggressive, self-centered, rebellious, aimless, dependent and they lack a desire to achieve.
Speaker 2:And I've gone into, I went into a high school last year to do a workshop for the ninth through 12th graders and I asked the principal and the school counselors I was like what is the biggest struggle, the biggest pain point that you all are having with your high schoolers?
Speaker 2:And without hesitation. They both looked at me and said apathy, that their high schoolers just they have no purpose, they have no aim, like they have no burning desire to get better. And I'm like, oh my goodness, it's because of how, right now, parents are being told to parent their children with focusing in on their feelings and self-esteem and confidence and all those kinds of things, and what our schools are doing right now as well. They're focusing a lot on, again, the social, emotional learning of kids, which is not a bad thing. It just can't be the only thing that parents are doing or that schools are doing. And the biggest thing that I talk about within the number two parenting book is what I call bright spot parenting, which is parenting with high expectations within the context of the warm and fuzzies, and with. That's where you get those green characteristics and that's where you get positive developmental outcomes.
Speaker 1:I love that expectations with the warm fuzzy and I use warm fuzzies and cold prickly's all the time in the little ones, I just love it. They say something. They're like, wow, that's a cold, prickly man, but warm and fuzzy, I love it. There is a passage and this is a secular program, but I've studied all the world's religions and there is a passage in the New Testament of the Christian Bible about Christ-like parenting which is pleasant but firm, pleasant but firm, and I also think the other part of validating emotions. So there's nothing wrong with saying, oh, you're feeling a little upset or here this happened and this is how you're feeling. But then the second step that we forget about is we'll solve it, do something. So my grandson, his sister, got a little ahead of him going up to the slide at this water part, the kitty slide and he felt like he got ditched and all of a sudden he's sitting on the side of the pool tearing up and he's like she left me. I'm like no, she's right up there. And he looked. I said now run up there and go get her. And he did and everything was fine.
Speaker 1:But those feelings, little ones, they change on a dime. I mean, it is so fast. But you have to help kids with what you got, to do something about it. And sometimes, believe it or not, it means doing things you don't feel like doing or you don't want to do. If the world, if we all, waited to do things till we felt the urge or the motivation, nothing would get done. You have part of life is. It doesn't matter what you feel. You just have to move on, do things and survive.
Speaker 2:And I think that's the thing that I'm running into a lot with a lot of like my old, like my teenage clients right now and like even my 20 year old clients, is I have a 32 year old male on my caseload right now and he's never had a job longer than six months in his life and I'm like you have to become comfortable with being uncomfortable he's, but I don't want to do that and I'm like but you have a child and you have a mother of your child who's relying on you to go out and provide for them, but you don't want to. And there's times where, like we do, it's more virtual, where I just want to take him and like, literally shake him and be like how is that going to make your child feel? I want to talk about feelings. How's that going to make your child feel knowing that, like you wouldn't provide for her because you didn't want to do this thing? And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work, but I'm like you have to do things.
Speaker 1:You have to embrace that in life and you're lying about be comfortable, being uncomfortable. That's a stoicism. Accept that life is painful and you keep moving forward. You don't stop. But that means you have to learn to be lean into the uncomfort. I love the idea of lean into the pain. Don't just make it all rainbows and butterflies and unicorns. You have to realize life is painful and there's a lot of it, and you have to lean into it, accept it and you just keep moving on.
Speaker 1:Now, on the far extreme side of all this discussion would be my father who, if we ever voiced an emotion about not wanting to do something, he would say did I ask how you feel about it? It doesn't matter how you feel about it. I guess, dad, sometimes that's the right response. As a parent, that's what you need to tell your kids. It really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:The other thing, I think part of the apathy. I just heard a story about couples in China who are born more. Their birth rate is dropping, even though governments offering stipends and all sorts of things to promote fertility and childbirth, but it's dropping. This one woman. She said if I want to have a child in this world and there's the climate change wars going on, all this stuff. And the kids are so in tune with it because they're following the news on TikTok and who knows what kind of news they're getting. Most of it's fake, or I always know. When my daughter will tell me something I'm like no, that's not true, that's a TikTok thing, that's not reality. But their reality is one of being overwhelmed and then getting apathetic. They just don't, they're not able to muster up the energy.
Speaker 1:The other thing that my wife and I have been talking about recently is working in this victim culture that everybody now is a victim. And the opposite of that would be with our granddaughter, who's eight and she got stabbed later. She had never seen Princess Diaries, which is one of my favorite films ever. They're in Hathaway and Julie Roberts, not Roberts, julia, mary Poppins, the original Mary Poppins, that's her name, the actress I'm blanking. Oh, andrew, is it Andrews? Julie? Yeah, I think so. Anyway, great film. And they use the Roosevelt, the Eleanor Roosevelt line no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. And my wife with her granddaughter. She said it's just like that girl at school that bothers you so much. You don't have to let it. You have the power over what you feel and you don't have to just, but it is building some resilience A very well used word. It's in the title of my book, but it's really important and part of that is okay, you feel this, but we need to move on.
Speaker 2:And it's like the, so combining, yes, the warm and fuzzies are super important, but then also like those expectations, and you get rewards for when you do you meet those expectations and you get you experience consequences when you don't meet those expectations, when you're behaving in a way that we that warms my heart, versus when you behave in a way that like just grinds my gears. And so combining that with that as well, I think, is also important, because it's, yes, like setting boundaries is good, but then how are you going to like continually reinforce those boundaries? And, in my experience, when we're trying to shape behaviors, you need the rewards and you need the punishments done in appropriate ways, yeah, and that there's no research on this new movement about, oh, never yell at your child.
Speaker 1:You heard attachment. That is totally wrong. It's the opposite of that Never yell at your child of no consequences. And there's absolutely no research to validate that. We know with really tough kids they're best motivated by 80% positive and 20% prudent consequences. They have to be prudent, they can't be off the charts, but they respond to that and really gets down to who's your individual child. So my first book, wired Connected, I look at the 23 different personality types you could get out of brain configuration. So this current movement likes to think that all children are empathetic and they'll always express their empathy and live in harmony with others. Okay, well, I truly.
Speaker 1:Our nonverbal system allows us to be at, have empathy and we are born with it and little infants have empathy right when they're born. But that empathy needs to be nurtured and through positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement, when we're not showing empathy to others or we're not acting on our empathy when we could have done something and we didn't. And there are some kids like autism spectrum kids who don't read nonverbal. They don't even really understand nonverbal communication, don't even know it exists. So that system is way underdeveloped for them. So they need more instructions and help with understanding what others are feeling and thinking, expressing empathy for others, being aware of others. Now the next level are people that know how to read nonverbal cues, that they use it for their own advantage. They don't have the appropriate empathetic response. So let's think of some kids sitting on the playground looking sad by themselves. The kids at the top tier. Those are the ones who feel empathy and they act on it appropriately. They'll go over and invite that kid in. But there's always one or two kids who see that kid sitting by themselves and they see it as an opportunity to go victimize that kid, tease that kid, bully that kid. So there are con men in the world and con women that they exist and they need to need firm parenting around. You will have empathy and you will act on it in an appropriate manner. And if you do it to bully other people, you've got problems at all.
Speaker 1:And you could look at emotional systems for kids. That's another area of the book. There are Winnie the Pooh's. There are kids that are Winnie the Pooh. They're all so easygoing and they express their empathy. They're just great. But you've got piglets who are worried. You've got rabbits who have angry temperaments. You've got the ee-wors who are depressed and you have to parent to that. And then you throw in the frontal lobe function and some kids have great frontal lobe functions, they stop and think before they act, and others it's throw a fist or head butt or something for the preschoolers Right and you have to have mixed parenting and impaired eat. You need child but not having consequences, never raising your voice at your child. I saw one of your posts it was about. I think it sounded like maybe the kid was climbing up the bleachers or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, the ninja gymnastics class so like doing.
Speaker 2:The little boy was doing the warp wall and so they were supposed to climb up and then come down. And he's five, and there's five adults yelling at this boy, telling him that he needs to come down on his belly and not like his back, where he wanted to come down. And there's five adults all yelling at this five year old, my five year old. As we're waiting, she looks at me and she goes in a not so quiet voice, goes Mama, you let me go how down, however I want. And I was like. And then like, I explained to her. But I was like people, you enrolled your five year old into this class. He can get up the warp all by himself. I'm pretty sure he can come down on his butt or do it how he wants, because you've given him the class to know how he can use his body and the padded give him that ability to calm down. He's not going to break anything. But like they were, like, we have to keep them safe.
Speaker 2:It's that five adults, yeah, like just let them do it.
Speaker 1:It's that over, there's that over protection thing and then they don't get to learn how to be independent. And then I love with Shushin and your daughter, because little kids don't think about what they're saying, how they're, how loud they're saying it or what the implications might be in a social group and saying that's an important thing to learn is when to say it would not to write, and then not being over protected. And then there are other situations. When my grandson went out to the balcony and it's a five floor drop and he starts to climb up the fence, I was pretty quick to respond and pull him off and say we don't climb up. That's too dangerous that one, and he's a climber, yeah.
Speaker 2:I like to say, because then she Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Now I was just going to say and then I want to get here by Chavagio that your main job as a parent is to keep him alive. That's your main goal. After that, you just let him be as independent as you can, be a feed him, be a water him, and don't let him run out in the street. That's pretty much. And where a seat belt? Now tell me about your five year old.
Speaker 2:That same day, so that my five year old went and did her class and then she was funny because, like when she went up to the top of the warp wall, she looked at me to see if I was going to say anything. And I'm like you can go down however you want. I'm like I don't like you know your body. And so then we were getting dressed and she was walking on top of the bleachers, like the very top bleacher, and I was like that's probably and I didn't say it out loud, I was like that's probably not a good idea.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden I turned to work at one of my twins and then I looked and my five year old had fell, falling off the top of the bleachers. But she again fell on like a padded thing and she was completely okay. And I like picked her up and I'm like are you okay? And she's yeah, I'm like that was scary. And she's yeah, I'm like what did you learn? And she's we don't walk on the top of the bleachers. And I'm like perfect, that's what she's never going to do again.
Speaker 1:Walk on top of the bleachers. So that's the whole thing is kids need to learn and that there are natural consequences in life. This idea you don't have consequences for your kids. They're going to have consequences in real life and that's how they learn. So if they put their hand on a hot stove, they learn pretty quick. Don't do that. There's consequences their whole life and an appointment situation. You got to learn those things, sid. Any thoughts on your part?
Speaker 3:I'm just listening to you guys. I'm in the like I said. I'm in the thick of parenting, Excuse me and I have a teenager 16, who's at that rebellious stage and I'm just sitting here thinking about having the perspective. But what I've learned about kids is if it's not uncomfortable, they don't make change. And that's the same with adults. You have to get to that point where it's just not comfortable to stay here. And one of the things I've had the realization in raising my own kids is there's that point where you know, yeah, you should instill chores and have your kids help around the house and do those things. We all know that's limited and they're not doing like the best job doing it, it's just practice. But there's this point when you have kids where you look at them and you think, well, they're able-bodied, they can do it, they can pour their own milk, they can make their own waffles, they can, you know, help me unload the car and get the groceries out, whatever it is.
Speaker 3:But I think for parents it's that cognitive shift of you live in this house, I'm not going to pay you to be a part of this house. Do help me. Do you buy a single mom? She'd always say we're a team, we just have to work together to get stuff done. And I don't think that that's like that right now. But I'm not going to make it easy for her. I'm not going to be like, oh no, it's fine, You're 16. You've got two years until you're done with high school. You better start thinking about what you're going to do. And I always tell her I'm like free rent ends when you're 18. It's not that you want to kick them out or say I can't, I'm not going to help you, I'm not going to support you, but I'm certainly not going to enable you. And you're not going to live in my basement if you don't aspire to do something.
Speaker 3:And I think as parents, we have to take away that comfort cushion or like the padding like you were just talking about, so that it is uncomfortable. And I was thinking about I have a neighbor behind me who has twins. I think they're in their 20s now. Neither one of them drive. And she asked both of my kids that are driving were like I can't wait to drive. I can't wait to drive. And she asked me not that long ago how did you get your kids interested in driving? I was like I didn't drive them anywhere. I just was like, if you want to go, you better figure out how to get there, because I'm not going to sit here and drive you all over town. So it's like the need to change becomes the necessity because they don't have the resource.
Speaker 3:And listening to you guys talk about it, I think it's not perfect. It's uncomfortable for parents like learning to be uncomfortable with your kids Not doing great too. As much as we want our kids to be uncomfortable, we've got to be comfortable with the emotional discomfort of them not thriving, of them not being successful. Because how often I want to jump in and rescue my older two kids to help them with this or that. You really have to stop yourself and be like figure it out. Like I guess you're going to have to figure it out that way. So I think it's all on a continuum and a spectrum, but it's really just like you're talking and seeing your daughter walk on that leecher. You anticipate what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:It's like the slow motion happening, but it's slowing yourself down to say, all right, it's not going to be the worst thing, but let her have that experience, Love that and that would be another solution for if you're getting burned out, which is you have to be able to handle your kids being sad, you have to be able to detach yourself. You can feel it some, but not too much, feeling some pain in their life or some struggling in their life. When my daughter across country me was laying down at the end, she had her best run. She finally beat the rival girl and she was laying on the ground when I came over and she's dead. I'm going to throw up and I'm like wait a minute, throw up if you need to. That's a joyous throw up because you pushed yourself hard.
Speaker 1:But when they're sad or they're struggling, you as a parent have to let go of that. You can't hold it all on and take your kids burden on or it will eat you alive. And that's where groups like Allinon are so important, where if you have a teen who's alcohol, drug addict, serious mental health issues, you need other parents there to help you not become co-dependent or you're enabling their behavior. But that means just giving up on that is so hard emotionally that's a tough one, yeah. So maybe that should be in the book too.
Speaker 2:It actually is in the book. So when, sidney, when you were talking, there's a chapter called Sentencing your Child to Life, their Life in your Basement, and it's all about over-parenting. And I even have a checklist and it was funny like those single moms, like she was reading through it like the first day and she's like I do that. I was feeling really good about myself until I got to the paragraph where it was like, if you checked off numerous of these, you're a helicopter parent, you're a bulldozer parent or you're a snowball parent. And she's like, oh, and I'm like you don't want to do everything for your children because then they don't learn how to do stuff themselves.
Speaker 1:Yep, I was fortunate. I was the neglected middle child, so I was the fourth out of five and when you have your first child, all the attention's on that child and your over parent. And then you get older, time goes by and by the time I was a teenager, my parents were too tired to get over involved. And the thing that I loved I loved the fact that I was neglected middle kid because I became independent. I learned how to do things myself. When I wanted to play after school hockey, when there was a middle school three miles after practice and have to play, that was the same way, Craig, I was a.
Speaker 3:I was an only child raised in the eighties, so I was the quintessential latchkey kid. Hardly any parental involvement till seven o'clock, eight o'clock at night. I learned to cook. I learned to entertain myself. I learned you learn all of those. I learned how to, you know, investigate things, figure things out. Because I didn't have, you don't have that, and I'm not that's the greatest either, but there's merit in having.
Speaker 1:There is the benefit for that. When you said self-entertain that's another great gift parents can give to their kids is you need a break from them and they need to go entertain themselves. And you structure that I like the idea of structure and just say, look, this is our half hour where you're going to entertain yourself because I've got some things I got to get done. Now you, of course, depending on the age, any little one can watch ball patrol or do Legos and self-entertain. If ever said to our mom I'm bored, her favorite response was find something to do or I'll find something for you to do. And we knew that was yours. So I was okay, I'm not bored anymore, but you got to let your kids feel that. That's great. Andre, this has just been lovely. I just made a note to myself to go out and buy and your parents should too the number two not that I know what it means, can't say without laughing Poop-Dot Parenting Book available on Amazon and there's tips for the poop-dot parent. Just loved having you on today. You're doing some great work and I'm going to close the show with things of beauty make me cry, which I end every show with, and it's usually around children, obviously, but this one I had just the most amazing experience.
Speaker 1:Thursday night the kids came over for the long weekend and my grandson wanted me to put him to bed and I'm like I would love to. And we laid there and I had this such a deep flashback to putting my son to bed when he was little. It was my favorite time of day. We just sit and talk and I felt my heart glowing as I taught him about my trip to Africa and climbing Kilimanjaro and I taught him Lala Salama, which in Swahili means right is Lala Salama, and we just talked and he fell asleep in my arms and it was just glorious. And then after about a half hour I could just feel my heart warming. It's just when the flashbacks to my son is so tearful for me. But I got up to go to bed. Apparently he was thinking I would spend the whole night with him, not be in my own room. The next morning he was not too happy with me. He said Mama Lisa's putting me to bed. I'm like, oh, I mean, that's were nights. I wanted to do that. But on Monday when we got back from Great Woodwatch he took this long nap and I heard him wake up and I went in and I got the photo albums from Africa. We sat there for about 45 minutes. Look at the pictures of Kilimanjaro and then all the different animals on safari and telling stories and it just that's.
Speaker 1:The great part of being a grandparent is you get to live some of those special moments over again. I really miss those times, but it was just wonderful. So, to my grandson and granddaughter, it was lovely having over at the house. Now the house is back at order again, it's a little quieter, which isn't a bad thing either. You send them home, but gosh, the flashbacks to when my son was younger, my daughter was younger. Those are so precious to me. The greatest time of life. Again, andrea, thank you for being on. So check her out. Andrea Mata, m-a-t-a. Oh, tell us about your free pairing seminar. No, it won't get on. This will produce after you're doing it on Thursday, I think today's Wednesday, but I'm assuming you'll be doing other ones.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to parents reach out to you or find out what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm starting up this virtual, free virtual parenting talk. I'm going to see how this first one goes. It's tomorrow, february 23rd, at 9pm Eastern time, because I needed to find a time, like after parents are putting their kids to bed, where they would be available. The topic is bright spot parenting why gentle parenting doesn't work, and I will be recording it, and so, if any of your viewers would like to watch the replay, go ahead and have them. Email me at Andrea at brightspotfamiliescom, and I will be more than happy to send them over the link for the replay.
Speaker 1:That is awesome, and tell us the site again, the website.
Speaker 2:It's wwwbrightspotfamiliescom.
Speaker 1:That is awesome and maybe I could be a guest on one of your shows, because we are in the same mode of thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think I'm going to try to like depending on how this first one goes maybe doing it like once a month on some kind of like pot take within the family or parenting or relationships, marriages, individual coping skills. But I would love to have you on Craig.
Speaker 1:No, that would be awesome. I would enjoy that. Thank you again, andrea. It's been delight and I hope our listeners enjoyed the show. And, if you did, please tell a friend and, as always, for your parents out there and grandparents out there on that old, but remember, just relax. You only have to be this side of good enough in your parenting, and anything you do other than that, more than that, isn't really going to make a difference anyway. Your kids are going to be who they're going to be. You just have to be this side of good enough. Thanks again.